2004 E53 Auto D - using gearbox in manual

[Smeeagain]

I tried selecting M and driving the car and upshifting/downshifting. all was fine but as I came up the slip road off the motorway I hadn't forgotten I was in manual and didn't shift down and as I came to a stop at the roundabout I noticed the car had downshifted to match the speed - so not that manual after all!

Is this a fault (going up through the gears manually is fine) or is it meant to do that for some reason?

Smee

[Dan1502]

It's supposed to do that.  The only instance that I  occasionally use it in manual is when going down fairly steep declines at certain speeds when it can tend to drop a gear when I'd prefer to remain in a higher gear.  If you move it across to the left as you do to use manual but do nothing else it is in sport mode and hangs onto gears longer.

[Smeeagain]

so there is no complete manual control then? I'm looking at doing an Advanced Driving Test and whilst I can do it in fully auto, it does somehwat take away from the drivers ability to control gear selection if you do the whole test sat in D. If the gearbox is always goign to take over on the downshift then i cant guarantee 100% that I will make every downshift bang on manually as , in efffect, I'd need to be changing down when the box does.

So to be 100% clear there is no way when in manual I can have complete control over all gear chnages both up and down?

Smee

[AW8]

To answer your closed question - No you cannot have 100% control

On back of I.A.M. comments relative to this box........

For manual gearboxes roadcraft states driver should adjust speed to that which is appropriate for the hazard/event and once speed adjusted then take the best suitable gear......(not shift down the box when braking).  Roadcraft allows brake gear overlap in limited circumstances & makes (arguably unclear) allowance for relatively less traditional technologies by encouraging owners to consider driver advice within manufacturer user manuals....Unfortunately there is nothing in roadcraft &/or your owners manual that advises how to use the manual function of a semi auto sequential box  as in our cars in M mode (to drive to the roadcraft system).

When moving gate left from D you enter S mode - only by going into S then shifting up or down does the driver see the gear number displayed. If  in sport mode or entering same whilst decelerating  the box is still in auto mode, (holding higher revs per gear), until driver makes a forward or rear gear selection.  Thus the car may have already downshifted when decelerating - if drivers first choice is downshift this could cause selection of a gear too low and a resultant jolt with high revs as this occurs....Personally if going from Sport to Manual I shift up a gear first to avoid this. The only way to avoid this mode transitional lack of gear display conflict is to drive in Manual from start of journey or by perhap selecting M from a suitable halt. In M mode the box still shifts down for you if it thinks you have forgotten. It will however not up shift thereafter unless you hit redline.


Apologies for length of post - I did not want to give misinformation within an I.A.M. context especially if you are looking to take your test in this car.  I have done around 80k miles using this box & am very familiar with roadcraft & its significant changes over decades.  I have avoided significantly commenting re the pro's & con's of certain aspects of Roadcraft & instead focused on roadcraft within a context to you using your gearbox. It may be beneficial for you to discuss the gearbox characteristics with your observer &/or examiner (who ideally may comment having had some experience of driving with this box or similar).

[amacman]

I have used manual gears only a few times and I find it best for the transmission to allow it to downshift when slowing or stopping .
I can then decide if selected gear is appropriate , and it usually is although having to look at the display can be distracting so I tend to not look . I can easily downshift or upshift to whatever I think is best through the seat of pantsometer .
Hope this makes sense .

[AW8]

........I totally agree with above re letting the box downshift when slowing & then selecting the correct gear. I might  override this in rare circumstances where I want engine braking downhill ,  (maybe to comply with a posted speed limit on a long descent or faced with icy microclimate or diesel spill etc).


When we analyse what the box is doing it is actually doing a good job in deceleration, temporarily going back into Auto mode to match gear to road speed prior to handing control to the driver for upshifts once speed has reduced.


The downside to a candidate within a roadcraft setting is the box does not easily allow the driver to demonstrate awareness of the gear phase within the system. Fortunately the choice the box has made downshifting will usually be appropriate....if not the gear can be selected as per amacmans description.

[Smeeagain]

Thanks, AW8 - I don't have a tutor assigned yet but will discuss with him/her when I do. They have said that there is no problem taking the test in an Automatic so there must be a methodology in place - and although I own an automatic my preference would be to take in in a manual but they've said that I should take the test in the car I'm training/being tutored in.

Thanks,
Smee

[AW8]

Got that.

Personally speaking I would rather learn with a manual so as to be best able to allow develop gear phase of the system.


Might be worth considering using a manual car if you have access to another vehicle. Doesn't have to be anything powerful or fast.....indeed lesser performance arguably allows the pupil/student to better demonstrate planning as more thought & planning is often required.

I.A.M. claims to be less stuffy than in years past - your in car relationship with observer in my view more critical than the gearbox or car...I hope you enjoy same & get some positives out of it.

[X5Sport]

The IAM will only be interested in how and when and why you choose to take over from the automatic functions to see your reasoning.  That will be part of your 'patter' as you talk your way around the assessment drives and actual test.  An auto in manual mode can never replicate a true manual as you have no clutch to control directly.  Personally I prefer a stick shift, and wanted such on my E53.

Good luck with the training.  I thoroughly enjoyed it, and learned a lot.  It's just a shame so few insurers etc give credit for achieving it.  I think every new driver should go through something like an IAM assessment as it teaches you so much more.  The big change needed is to make everyone retake their tests (or key parts of it at least) every time their photo licence needs renewing.  That might improve the general standard on UK roads, a standard which quite frankly is poor.

I would like to take my RoSPA assessment too when time permits.  That one is much harder, especially to get the 'Gold' pass.

[AW8]

We digress a little albeit healthy and relaxant topic evolution is a good thing......

Re DSA test.....Despite perceptions I actually think many would struggle with &/or be suprised as to how much work is involved to pass the current DSA test. (M-S-M-P-S-L-A-D-A. routine isn't the easiest system to grasp for some).


Personally I feel more tuition should be given on rural single carrageways, night driving & the dark art of overtaking. Some may feel there is a separate issue whereby more needs to be done to shock educate new drivers re the consequences of serious and fatal collisions.

As for IAM & Rospa.....Despite cynical views of some I appreciate what is required to pass...I welcome anything that improves standards albeit it is ironic that such schemes fail to attract many who have a more reckless approach behind the wheel & arguably present greater danger than many others.

Personally I embrace certain aspects of roadcraft more than others.

[Smeeagain]

[quote="X5Sport"]
The IAM will only be interested in how and when and why you choose to take over from the automatic functions to see your reasoning.  That will be part of your 'patter' as you talk your way around the assessment drives and actual test.  An auto in manual mode can never replicate a true manual as you have no clutch to control directly.  Personally I prefer a stick shift, and wanted such on my E53.

Good luck with the training.  I thoroughly enjoyed it, and learned a lot.  It's just a shame so few insurers etc give credit for achieving it.  I think every new driver should go through something like an IAM assessment as it teaches you so much more.  The big change needed is to make everyone retake their tests (or key parts of it at least) every time their photo licence needs renewing.  That might improve the general standard on UK roads, a standard which quite frankly is poor.

I would like to take my RoSPA assessment too when time permits.  That one is much harder, especially to get the 'Gold' pass.
[/quote]

It is the RoSPA Advanced Driving Test that I'm looking at. having researched it and spoken with a few who have done both IAM and RoSPA, the feeling amongst those I spoke to was that the IAM was a more recognised name with better 'branding' , but that the RoSPA test was 'better' for two reasons - one, that is it s graded bronze/silver/gold whereas IAM is straight pass/fail, and two, the RoSPA tests needs to be re-taken every three years.

[X5Sport]

Agreed.  The IAM offers a 'voluntary' retest system, but it should be compulsory (IMHO).

[Smeeagain]

I'm interested to find out more when I meet my tutor about the whole bronze/silver/gold thing. At the end of the day I want to pass and that in itself will be hard enough after years of bad habits (but no collisions I'd add), so be interested to see where I sit on the scale. I have no expectations of Gold.

[Smeeagain]

I had to park this for a while due to work commitments, however I sat my RoSPA Advanced Driving Test yesterday and got a Gold pass.

Smee

[X5Sport]

Very well done sir  :victory: :yell: :biggrin: