Brake failure

[nujon]

Driving back from Newcastle two weeks ago - within 10 miles from home, I noticed a sudden loss of braking performace and a softer pedal - another 2 miles down the road, 'check brake fluid' warning came on. I pulled into a nearby service station, looked round the car and noted brake fluid dripping out of either end of the n/s sill covers and a near empty master cylinder. Got the car recovered to my home and proceeded to check out the brake piping routes. To cut to the chase, the pipe feeding the rear o/s caliper had corroded through in the long section that runs within the n/s sill cavity - the region of corrosion was very localised (~ 30mm) and coincident with the pipe's passage through a plastic securing clip - the pipe to the n/s caliper had corrsion at exactly the same place and was itself on the verge of failure - either side of the corrsion region, the entire pipe lenths where in excellent condition.

To suffer such a failure on a 2006 plate, 57K miles, prestige vehicle I find shocking. Talked to my indy who said, quote "yep, they often go at that clip"' and added "we can't visually inspect them there during MOT as they are fully enclosed"

I may be citing an X5 'weak point' that other members are well aware off - but just in case, I wanted to share my unfortunate experince in case others may wish to check their pipe-runs through the n/s sill

[Sanj]

Primarily glad you're OK buddy!

Had that happen to me on an old K-reg Orion (remember them). At the time it was hand-brake and (a$$hole$ time) at the roundabout!

Considering it may not be convenient but if you get a chance can you take pics? Such a common issue and yet no governance on this...

[AW8]

Thanks for the heads up........glad you are safe.

Too late for financial good will from BMW UK I guess but I would certainly mention it to them.

Is it relatively easy to remove plastic covers to visually inspect same ?

[nujon]

[quote=""Sanj""]Primarily glad you're OK buddy!

Had that happen to me on an old K-reg Orion (remember them). At the time it was hand-brake and (a$$hole$ time) at the roundabout!

Considering it may not be convenient but if you get a chance can you take pics? Such a common issue and yet no governance on this...[/quote]

I'll try and do some pics - BTW can I upload .jpg directly or do I have to use photobucket or the like?

[Sanj]

Photobucket buddy:

viewtopic.php?f=28&t=400

[nujon]

[quote=""AW8""]Thanks for the heads up........glad you are safe.

Too late for financial good will from BMW UK I guess but I would certainly mention it to them.

Is it relatively easy to remove plastic covers to visually inspect same ?[/quote]

About 45mins - 9 plastic trim clips to get the outer sill cover off (get some spare clips cos you often wreck them on removal), 10 spire bolts to remove the auto box cover, take off the webasto silencer (1bolt and 1 plastic nut) - then 9 more spire nuts to enable the sill lower cover to pivot down from the front wheel arch liner - you can now inspect the full run length through the sill and also have enough access to cut out and replace a section if need be - I renewed the full lengths in cupro-nickel - using a Sealy hand-held on-vehicle flairing tool to flare the steel tails that I left at the rear end of the sill

[squeaky2]

Glad your ok......very scary to think you would have no brakes and in an Auto aswell.

This has been discussed on the forum before........i cant remember whether its the updated one or the old forum, but i remember pics that one of the members posted.......mainly because of his dubious jacking up of the car

Hopefully someone might remember this and be able to point us in the right direction.

[Raj]

That's shocking and glad it didn't turn out any worse.

[shadrack]

glad mine failed the mot on them so i saved this from happening, btw mine is nearly the same age and got mot fail on 90% of brake pipes on the car so done them all now!

[shadrack]

glad mine failed the mot on them so i saved this from happening, btw mine is nearly the same age and got mot fail on 90% of brake pipes on the car so done them all now!

[X5Sport]

[quote=""squeaky2""]Glad your ok......very scary to think you would have no brakes and in an Auto aswell..[/quote]

Dual circuit brakes are designed to prevent a complete failure in the event of this sort of problem, but it's still bl@@dy scary trying to stop an X5 with only two working brake sets instead of the usual four!

The handbrake doesn't help very much either!

If it's a known issue, I wonder why BMW have done nothing about it. Perhaps a word with VOSA might 'help'. As you say, this should not happen on a vehicle that new. Perhaps this is going to be another similar situation as with the auto boxes. Known, covered outside the UK, but as ever here you're on you own and out of pocket! Five years is no time at all in the life of brake pipes.

[g60renshaw]

Had a look at mine over the weekend when I was fitting the new rear beam bushes and sure enough, where there pipes run through the plastic clip/shrouds there is corrosion there. Not enough on mine to concern me overly right now but its the next job to do before new year now.
Mine is a 2001, but only 85K. I have had old VW's with 200K and 20 years old and the pipes are still perfect, so its a definite design flaw having such a water trap.

Jay

[Powercat]

Got me thinking now, need to inspect my brakes
for all the money this car costs they should have made the brake pipes stainless steel

[Flatlander]

I've checked mine on the drivers side and I have the corrosion point too. Damn that's scary! Can someone provide more guidance on repairing this? Where do you go and buy new tubes? When I search for "brake lines" I get the flexible parts that are in the wheel wells.

[nujon]

[quote=""Flatlander""]I've checked mine on the drivers side and I have the corrosion point too. Damn that's scary! Can someone provide more guidance on repairing this? Where do you go and buy new tubes? When I search for "brake lines" I get the flexible parts that are in the wheel wells.[/quote]

Any reputable Motor Factor will keep 3/16" brake pipe - usually in cupro-nickel 'cos that's what the repair trade mainly use (relatively easy to form c.f. steel - and bomb-proof as far as corrosion is concerned)

To splice-in a repair (as I did) you will need 3/16 female barrels and male connectors - again readily obtainable from the Factors.

You will also need an 'on vehicle' flaring tool capable of flaring not only the relatively soft CnNi - but also the steel tails of your cut-points - these cost ~ £150 - £200 (I bought one cos my garage estimate was over £200 - and I'm sure I'll find future use for it). Don't by the £10 quid tools off fleabay as they won't flare steel!

I connected the front end of my replacement pipe sections at the existing unions and recycling the male connectors - but beware you need a DIN flaring die here to make the seal (3/16 die will not give you a seal) - to that end, make sure you buy/borrow a tool with a DIN die (I nevertheless used 3/16 fittings at my rear cut points as these are easy to obtain wheras DIN fittings are not - my flaring tool came with both dies)