About to bite the bullet on e53 X5 3.0d 2004

[AW8]

Sorry to hear of box & associated concerns. That is why my original post placed great emphasis on checking same.

I accept that symptoms can sometimes appear post purchase.

There are several issues to consider here......


1. The current integrity of box & associated components

2. Any work required such as software update, fluid changes or component changes.

3. Warranty claims

4. Sale of goods act rights

I strongly suggest that if you suspect a technical fault that you initially do not do anything yourself unless fully agreed with seller. If it was a motor trade sale then any post sale remedial work could be later argued by seller as having caused a problem compromising any sale of goods act redress. Similarly any work done and claimed from warranty or prior to any later claim under warranty could be argued as being problematic or invalidating to warranty cover.

If the car has a genuine fault then I suggest the 1st approach should be to a recent trader seller. The presence of any warranty does not alleviate the sellers responsibility under the sale of goods act. If you claim on warranty you are likely to have to pay a betterment, partial or excess contribution. Additionally any claim won't be authorised unless the warranty company agree there is a fault. Even then there can be exclusions for defects found so close to point of sale.

Best thing I suggest is to engage with seller and explain your concerns. Warranty companies & motor traders can so often blame seller for comissionning unauthorised work even alleging further problems may have been caused on back of it.

I personally would look up re procedure for a driver conducted gearbox setting reset (this is supposedly where the car re-learns your driving style....you can do this). If that doesn't work I would ask for a gearbox diagnostic report from main dealer or if authorised by seller and warranty company - a good gearbox specialist or BMW independent confident & capable diagnosing same (you may struggle with the later as many field this work out).

The diagnostic work should indicate if you have a problem or not. Once you know the integrity and any failings you can then decide how best to approach the seller.

To make matters worse, time is ticking...one other option might be to reject the whole car but that is far more difficult than it sounds as needs the agreement of the seller.

I should put into context that "the lurch" is a pretty well documented issue on the 6 speed ZF box and not just on the E53 BMW X5. It may be that you are merely experiencing an annoying characteristic....do some research online re "the lurch" & "ZF" .

A lot to digest but the strong message is that unauthorised meddling and spanner work may give seller or warranty provider excuses to walk away.

Do be aware that a warranty does not remove the seller responsibility under the sale of goods act. As such I would not expect to use a warranty claim to address a fault present at point of sale or close to it.

In a private sale situation there is very little recourse fr the buyer unless good will and kindness come into play.

[Entwicklung34]

I really appreciate that info everybody.

I was so thorough on the test drive with the g/box making sure to use all gears, modes, and conditions like motorway, town driving, stop start etc... Frustrating that it didn't happen a single time. I'm REALLY astute with anything car related that doesn't feel/sound right too, so it would have registered.

I also understand from what i'm reading, I could be worried over nothing. Even if that's the case though, I wouldn't have bought a car with this 'feature'.

I'm going to try to gather some more info on this issue, do the pedal reset, drive it a bit more then make a decision.

I'm glad I have the experienced people of this forum to advise me. It's really appreciated. Hopefully I will be of some use to someone else on here at some stage!

[AW8]

Glad ramblings potentially of some use.

Link to lurch on this clicky

And some info re BMW sib for other models with same box here

I seem to recall forum discussion on our own site re dealer software updates. Perhaps others may have more info.

[Entwicklung34]

AW8 you are have a wealth of information and have been very helpful indeed. I read through the links an clearly my issue has been well documented... Whether I will have to live with it is another question. I have been doing some town driving today and the lurch was only present a few times, which I take some comfort in. When it happens, I do look in the rear view to see who shunted me.

I've just hooked my laptop up to the car with the INPA software I bought when I had my e39, and when I ran error codes for the car it came up with:

* 54C6 Oil abrasion
* Magnetic valve 4 (shiftlock)

Given this info, I feel a fluid change would be a good first move... I'd probably want to change the diff fluid, g/box ATF and the transfer case fluid. Found some good info on this... http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showth ... p?t=783797 I am not making any rash decisions on this due to the excellent point AW8 made about invalidating any possible warranties etc.

This 'lurching' is a small issue, but it has worried me a whole lot. I have found it interesting that it doesn't occur in sport mode, and that some have reported that it doesn't happen with the DSC turned off (yet to try this!). I would use sport mode all the time but the x5 is not driveable around town in sport mode. It really tries to hold onto the gears making it feel very awkward when not making adequate progress. I suppose driving with the DSC turned off is not the best option either.

More updates when I have them, and in the meantime any advice/comments/past experiences welcome.

[X5Sport]

I can't remember for certain, but I think in 'Normal' the box comes to a halt in 2nd whereas in 'Sport' is does so in 1st.  The lurch is something to do with 2nd gear and how it disconnects as the car stops.

Haven't had mine for a few years now and am used to the 8sp  :-[

[Entwicklung34]

Yes, that was the case on my e39 3.0d but that did have the 5sp gm box. It performed flawlessly, then had some harsher shifts... I changed the oil/filter and then it was silky smooth thereafter. The box in the x5 I now have is nowhere near as civilised. The engine in the x5 however is much more responsive and a million times quieter!

[AW8]

Glad info of some use.

A bit more advice & a driving tip....

You seem sensible re implications of actions, work & any claims or disputes but perhaps best not to voluntarily disclose plugging anything into the car as the slightest excuse is all that is needed for a get out clause to come into play.

Do consider a BMW dealership diagnostic (ideally by a senior technician and not a workshop helper) , if you want to ascertain gearbox integrity in an approved and documented manner...but also consider timings of doing so in conjunction with any initial void claim period (if applicable). Remember a warranty should NOT replace a trade sellers reponsibilities under sale of goods act which sides with you in that any defect found post sale is deemed to have been present at point of sale unless seller proves otherwise & with onus on seller to rectify ( though in reality a court would consider any betterment advantage to buyer from a brand new part & may offset any award to reflect same fairly to both parties). Reality is you & seller might agree you claim under warranty but could try ask seller to contribute to any excess or betterment contribution if warranty (assuming claim aughorised). 

Not suggesting any potential difficulties between you & seller albeit you infer by omission that you perhaps haven't engaged with them on this yet...curious as to why not (if this is so & assuming you feel comfortable discussing same).

I run the earlier 5 speed auto box so no lurch, however, someone with your gearbox fitted suggested  knocking gear selector into sport on slowing to approach a halt, then pushing across to normal auto once moves off again.
Not ideal but would make things smoother as well as giving a little more instant response if called upon when moving from a standstill or crawl.

Finally we should NOT assume there is a fault or faulty component - sorry but I am not familiar with INPA or reading for fault codes on your specific gearbox.

[Reusch]

Contact the seller and ask them to sort it don't try sorting it yourself.

[Entwicklung34]

Excellent points and we'll written! However, i'm still unsure of whether the car actually has a problem or whether this is just a common 'trait' of the g/box... A lot of evidence online suggests the latter.
However i'm also recognising the fact that the thermostat definitely needs changing. This is going to cost money, even if I do it myself... Should the seller fork out for this? The fault was definitely there when I purchased the car, no question.

I'm currently feeling that the thermostat is a minor issue I can fix and that asking the seller to sort it would be more hassle than it's worth... I did travel a fair way for the car also (over 100 miles to the small dealership). I will enquire about a diagnostic at bmw for the transmission... I don't have the money to be throwing around at the moment but it might be worth it in the long run. Would it be sensible to say if the diagnostic suggests the lurch is going to be problematic then contact the dealer, if it says it's just normal function then live with it? I'm tempted to email the seller to inform him of my worries and that i'm looking to have some diagnostics done just to be on the safe side, see what his response is. Does this sound wise? He came across as a genuine seller with good customer care, but this was before the sale.

[AW8]

Most definitely the seller I where you need to be engaging.

I would outline your conserns re any faults and indicate they were spotted early but only highlighted as you wanted opportunity to assess car and highlight issues in one initial email.

If cost is an issue to you I assure you a 200 miles in fuel can fade into insignificance within the potential coss of ownership & maintenance.  I suspect seller may invite you to drop the car in so he can have a look. That might sound accommodating but you need a bit more than that if a favourable technical outcome is desired & which is cost effective to you. Ideally test the water but I would be working towards he/she agreeing a BMW dealer or maybe decent BMW independent diagnostic on areas of concern ideally with agreement of seller agreeing to pay for or towards any repairs or work. I would endeavor to negotiate the diagnostic work being done local to you although it is common for sellers to want to diagnose themselves or use someone they know.

Most definitely engage asap - only thereafter will you truly find out just how good your friendly seller really is.

If wanting to know if box is merely typically characteristic then perhaps test drive another with same engine & box locally (mindful not to offer to disclose true agenda) or maybe see if anyone on here near to you happy to allow you to compare gearbox characteristics in a similar car.

[Entwicklung34]

I'll get right on it, and see how it goes. Things like this can be pretty stressful for me, but so would a huge bill!! :p

In the meantime I found this thread, which did make me feel a whole lot better: http://xdrivers.co.uk/forum/https://xdr ... ic.php?t=6

[AW8]

Just keep things polite, factual & as simple as possible. No need to share thoughts and advice sentiments drom here & definitely not any lurch info.

Dear (Nice Seller details here)

Hope you are well.

Re X5 reg number xxxxxxxx purchased xxxx

Unfortunately I have noticed 2 potential faults namely

1) temp gauge seems to read lower than midway.

2) gearbox jolts when changing down to 2nd.

Issues noticed & found soon after purchase but wanted to further assess car before contacting you.

I accept that a professional diagnosis may be the way forward & in advance of any work , but I am mindful we are some distance apart hence my email.


Would appreciate your views & thoughts on this.

Regards

YOU


You are merely testing the water - you don't have to agree to anything proposed by seller or indeed you albeit try not to mess seller around if he/she seemingly plays ball.

[Reusch]

I had a fault on a vehicle purchased from a dealer who was 250 miles away so it was a major ball ache for me if he'd had wanted me to take vehicle back for diagnostics he was a p***k with me but I sorted it out myself and my local garage,by the way in not saying your seller is going to be like the one I had,get on the blower and ask him about the thermostat and lurch as aw8 says tho 200 mile round trip ain't that bad if he sorts it.

[Entwicklung34]

Thanks Reusch, I wanted to avoid anything like that due to the stress of it... Under a bit of pressure lately so like to keep things simple where I can! However, it certainly seems like the lesser of two evils at the moment!

AW8 - Am I glad you have taken me under your proverbial wing... The drinks are definitely on me if we happen to meet one day down the line. I really appreciate your advice re the email, very well presented. I'm all about the numbers so wording things correctly is not a strength of mine! A diagnostic on the autobox would certainly put my mind at rest for the near future, and I'd happily have the fluids changed myself if all was deemed ok by an expert. The thermostat I'm certain is toast.

Email sent to seller... I hope he is the genuinely nice guy I took him to be when purchasing.

[AW8]

Happy to assist when able -  as so often are other decent folk here.

Hold on re the drink offer until you are sorted or at least clearer on the way forward  :beer2:

Many will assure you that even the nicest of sellers can change their stance when money is in play post sale....fingers crossed - keep us posted

Will check in here tomorrow & see if any update