Hi all,
I fear that my car key has been cloned.
Background:
I have two cars, F16 X6 M50d, and a Mercedes C-class
So I left the house near 8pm, and noticed a white BMW waiting outside, engine running, guy sitting there waiting. I started the engine on the Mercedes and started to de-ice it.
The guy in the car was doing nothing, just smoking a fag...
After awhile, I accidentally pressed the boot opening button on the X6 key fob (it was in my trousers), and it opened. I then went to close it.
Immediately, the guy chucked his cigarette out of the car window and drove off.
I suspect he was waiting for me to use key fob on the BMW, and now I suspect he has cloned the key.
What can I do about it? Can I somehow get the key cancelled/voided?
I am going to get a steering wheel lock tomorrow, and have temporarily parked the Merc across the driveway entrance.
What else can I do? as I don't want the grief of theft/recovery (am sure they'll do a pick and park on it) :-[
Note - I do have remote tracking/immobilisation on the car installed by a dealership. :-[
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Key cloned (potentially) - what can I do?
Re: Key cloned (potentially) - what can I do?
Hi
Hopefully it's just a coincidence but you could be right.
I would think X5 Sport will probably know, but In meantime I would give BMW a ring and ask them.
Also as you said, doing physical things will help slow the speed of any theft down, and hopefully deter them, like putting the Mercedes in front of it.
For physical devices I would get a disclook as it covers the whole steering wheel rather than a bar type, a a determined person could just cut the steering wheel and remove a bar type.
Or if the X6 is being parked up for a while then consider possibly a wheel clamp, or even a drive-way post in front of where the car is parked which can be removed or drops down will all help to try and slow them down and may help to deter them. Also a baby alarm with on of the monitors placed in the car may also help alert you to a theft.
Other measures such as CCTV on your property and pointing at the car may help. All of which cost but it's probably a lot less than the excess on the X6.
Hth
Graeme.
Hopefully it's just a coincidence but you could be right.
I would think X5 Sport will probably know, but In meantime I would give BMW a ring and ask them.
Also as you said, doing physical things will help slow the speed of any theft down, and hopefully deter them, like putting the Mercedes in front of it.
For physical devices I would get a disclook as it covers the whole steering wheel rather than a bar type, a a determined person could just cut the steering wheel and remove a bar type.
Or if the X6 is being parked up for a while then consider possibly a wheel clamp, or even a drive-way post in front of where the car is parked which can be removed or drops down will all help to try and slow them down and may help to deter them. Also a baby alarm with on of the monitors placed in the car may also help alert you to a theft.
Other measures such as CCTV on your property and pointing at the car may help. All of which cost but it's probably a lot less than the excess on the X6.
Hth
Graeme.
Now: E70 X5 in Blue, 3 Minis Cooper S R53, JCW R56 & Cooper S Roadster R59 :drive:
Prev: Abarth 595C & 500C, E53 X5 4.4i, E88 135i M Sport, Audi TT Mk1 V6, 3 Smarts, 8 Vauxhalls, 4 Fords, 2 Triumphs, 1 Mini & Bikes
Prev: Abarth 595C & 500C, E53 X5 4.4i, E88 135i M Sport, Audi TT Mk1 V6, 3 Smarts, 8 Vauxhalls, 4 Fords, 2 Triumphs, 1 Mini & Bikes
Re: Key cloned (potentially) - what can I do?
Hi
Also check with tracking company as to the system capabilities and what it reports.
The reason is the tracker on my old car required a key fob to be present / in vicinity of the car or presssed manually to deactivate it otherwise the car tracker would report the start to the company and they would phone me for the password.
However, when in auto mode it would not require the fob to be pressed, so it if fob in the kitchen and car on the drive it would not report the start, but if started for a second time when 50 meters away from the fob it would alert the system.
Graeme
Also check with tracking company as to the system capabilities and what it reports.
The reason is the tracker on my old car required a key fob to be present / in vicinity of the car or presssed manually to deactivate it otherwise the car tracker would report the start to the company and they would phone me for the password.
However, when in auto mode it would not require the fob to be pressed, so it if fob in the kitchen and car on the drive it would not report the start, but if started for a second time when 50 meters away from the fob it would alert the system.
Graeme
Now: E70 X5 in Blue, 3 Minis Cooper S R53, JCW R56 & Cooper S Roadster R59 :drive:
Prev: Abarth 595C & 500C, E53 X5 4.4i, E88 135i M Sport, Audi TT Mk1 V6, 3 Smarts, 8 Vauxhalls, 4 Fords, 2 Triumphs, 1 Mini & Bikes
Prev: Abarth 595C & 500C, E53 X5 4.4i, E88 135i M Sport, Audi TT Mk1 V6, 3 Smarts, 8 Vauxhalls, 4 Fords, 2 Triumphs, 1 Mini & Bikes
Re: Key cloned (potentially) - what can I do?
Can't really add anything to what has already been said above.
Calling BMW would be the first activity to see if every key can be de-programmed and new ones used. I suspect it actually means module changes though.
Make sure you have a two-factor tracker - such as mentioned above - like a Trackstar 6.
Clamps and steering wheel locks too.
If you had any details if the 'watcher' pass them to the Police. Description of individual, vehicle details and Reg if you have it.
Calling BMW would be the first activity to see if every key can be de-programmed and new ones used. I suspect it actually means module changes though.
Make sure you have a two-factor tracker - such as mentioned above - like a Trackstar 6.
Clamps and steering wheel locks too.
If you had any details if the 'watcher' pass them to the Police. Description of individual, vehicle details and Reg if you have it.
Never anthropomorphise computers. They hate that.-
Ed.Matysiak
- Newbie
- Posts: 18
- Joined: Wed Jun 03, 2015 1:30 pm
Re: Key cloned (potentially) - what can I do?
Get into your local dealer when you can. Keys can be canceled 
Ed
Parts Team Leader
Cotswold BMW Hereford
Phone: 01432 375555
Fax: 01432 375556
Email: [email protected]
Parts Team Leader
Cotswold BMW Hereford
Phone: 01432 375555
Fax: 01432 375556
Email: [email protected]
-
lezmtaylor
- Member
- Posts: 970
- Joined: Sat Jul 31, 2010 11:25 pm
- Location: Gloucester
Re: Key cloned (potentially) - what can I do?
not on topic, but good to see Ed Matysiakn has joined our Forum (his profile says he is ''Parts Advisor '' at BMW Hereford ).
So we should be able to get good advise as in this present post.
Lez
So we should be able to get good advise as in this present post.
Lez
2002. 4.4lpg,ledAE's,Xenons,paddleshift,compass mirror,inst rings,led int lights,rear camera,crystal tailights,eisenmann road exh,Schnitzer pedals,chrome indicators,colour co-ord headlamps & bonnet grilles,hualigim entertainment system.dash and rearcamera,comfort seats.hud,bull bars,engine instalube
Re: Key cloned (potentially) - what can I do?
[quote="graemeX5"]
Hi
Also check with tracking company as to the system capabilities and what it reports.
[/quote]
My tag requires it to be in the car when I start the engine up, otherwise trackstar call me.
Hi
Also check with tracking company as to the system capabilities and what it reports.
[/quote]
My tag requires it to be in the car when I start the engine up, otherwise trackstar call me.
Re: Key cloned (potentially) - what can I do?
[quote="X5Sport"]
Can't really add anything to what has already been said above.
Calling BMW would be the first activity to see if every key can be de-programmed and new ones used. I suspect it actually means module changes though.
Make sure you have a two-factor tracker - such as mentioned above - like a Trackstar 6.
Clamps and steering wheel locks too.
If you had any details if the 'watcher' pass them to the Police. Description of individual, vehicle details and Reg if you have it.
[/quote]
Good plan about calling BMW - I hope that they will be able to give me a definitive answer. I talked to the BMW dealership and they basically said, with the security update, they can only clone a key once they have acess to the onboard computer (presumably through the OBD)... still I'd rather have the key de-programmed. I suspect it uses radio, and have heard of radio amplification attacks. This may affect only comfort access users.
I had a trackstar cat 5 installed when I ordered the car, and had the dealership install it before I collected it.
I now have bought a steering wheel lock, and the wheel clamp is on order. Wheel clamp is a bit over kill for now, but will use it when I travel abroad.
I did manage to get the first 4 digits of the license plate, the person was a male, wear a black beanie, probably around 35 ish. I'll have to check the CCTV to see if it got more...
Can't really add anything to what has already been said above.
Calling BMW would be the first activity to see if every key can be de-programmed and new ones used. I suspect it actually means module changes though.
Make sure you have a two-factor tracker - such as mentioned above - like a Trackstar 6.
Clamps and steering wheel locks too.
If you had any details if the 'watcher' pass them to the Police. Description of individual, vehicle details and Reg if you have it.
[/quote]
Good plan about calling BMW - I hope that they will be able to give me a definitive answer. I talked to the BMW dealership and they basically said, with the security update, they can only clone a key once they have acess to the onboard computer (presumably through the OBD)... still I'd rather have the key de-programmed. I suspect it uses radio, and have heard of radio amplification attacks. This may affect only comfort access users.
I had a trackstar cat 5 installed when I ordered the car, and had the dealership install it before I collected it.
I now have bought a steering wheel lock, and the wheel clamp is on order. Wheel clamp is a bit over kill for now, but will use it when I travel abroad.
I did manage to get the first 4 digits of the license plate, the person was a male, wear a black beanie, probably around 35 ish. I'll have to check the CCTV to see if it got more...
-
MarkG_M3CP
- Member
- Posts: 167
- Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2016 5:46 pm
- Location: Hampshire
Re: Key cloned (potentially) - what can I do?
Check your car insurance for key replacement - give them a call and explain....
They are more likely to agree to pay £1000 for all new keys and programming instead of the £75k car.
If not, take he car to the dealer and ask them - they will also be able to lock on in their pound safely while you get to the bottom of it.
This is my worst fear. Best of luck.
They are more likely to agree to pay £1000 for all new keys and programming instead of the £75k car.
If not, take he car to the dealer and ask them - they will also be able to lock on in their pound safely while you get to the bottom of it.
This is my worst fear. Best of luck.
Current: F80 M3 Competition Package and F20 M135i
Gone: F15 X5 M50d / F30 335d xDrive M Sport / E92 LCI 320d M Sport / E46 320d M Sport Touring / E46 318i Touring
Gone: F15 X5 M50d / F30 335d xDrive M Sport / E92 LCI 320d M Sport / E46 320d M Sport Touring / E46 318i Touring
Re: Key cloned (potentially) - what can I do?
There used to be a fitment that went in between the battery and earth cable on my Jensen that you could take out and it broke the circuit rendering the car unstartable that was 20 years ago , surely you can get something like that today . I know it would be a pain but so would getting it stollen ! Alternatively ask the dealer which fuse you could take out when leaving the car to render it unstartable .
Leave it with only a small amount of fuel in so it would need to be fuelled up if stollen , more likely to be caught on cctv .
On another note there have been a spate of car jacking on the news where people are simply thrown out of their own car one person was killed by the attacker for a car .
Sid10
Leave it with only a small amount of fuel in so it would need to be fuelled up if stollen , more likely to be caught on cctv .
On another note there have been a spate of car jacking on the news where people are simply thrown out of their own car one person was killed by the attacker for a car .
Sid10
Re: Key cloned (potentially) - what can I do?
The battery cutouts stop everything, including the Trackers, and add a risk of causing issues with the constantly disconnecting electronics. They are not a good idea on modern electronically controlled cars.
And yes the keys all uses radio. There is a single standard for car keys all around Europe (868MHz - and not a secret). Manufacturers use their own security codes over the radio link. However some of the security protocols are poor. VW recently got flagged for using a set of common 'master codes' across their entire model range. Not sensible. BMW used to allow easy access via the OBD2 port - which EU regs require to be common on all manufacturers thus making life easier for thieves.
Add in telematics with poor security and pretty much every manufacturer needs to wake up to cyber security - as do those making home 'internet of things' kit. The largest DDOS web attack before Xmas used unguarded webcam/baby monitors.
And yes the keys all uses radio. There is a single standard for car keys all around Europe (868MHz - and not a secret). Manufacturers use their own security codes over the radio link. However some of the security protocols are poor. VW recently got flagged for using a set of common 'master codes' across their entire model range. Not sensible. BMW used to allow easy access via the OBD2 port - which EU regs require to be common on all manufacturers thus making life easier for thieves.
Add in telematics with poor security and pretty much every manufacturer needs to wake up to cyber security - as do those making home 'internet of things' kit. The largest DDOS web attack before Xmas used unguarded webcam/baby monitors.
Never anthropomorphise computers. They hate that.-
Steamyrotter
- Snr Member
- Posts: 1304
- Joined: Sat Jul 31, 2010 11:06 pm
Re: Key cloned (potentially) - what can I do?
[quote="sid10"]
There used to be a fitment that went in between the battery and earth cable on my Jensen that you could take out and it broke the circuit rendering the car unstartable that was 20 years ago , surely you can get something like that today . I know it would be a pain but so would getting it stollen ! Alternatively ask the dealer which fuse you could take out when leaving the car to render it unstartable .
Leave it with only a small amount of fuel in so it would need to be fuelled up if stollen , more likely to be caught on cctv .
On another note there have been a spate of car jacking on the news where people are simply thrown out of their own car one person was killed by the attacker for a car .
Sid10
[/quote]
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=bolt+ ... cQ_AUIBygC
There used to be a fitment that went in between the battery and earth cable on my Jensen that you could take out and it broke the circuit rendering the car unstartable that was 20 years ago , surely you can get something like that today . I know it would be a pain but so would getting it stollen ! Alternatively ask the dealer which fuse you could take out when leaving the car to render it unstartable .
Leave it with only a small amount of fuel in so it would need to be fuelled up if stollen , more likely to be caught on cctv .
On another note there have been a spate of car jacking on the news where people are simply thrown out of their own car one person was killed by the attacker for a car .
Sid10
[/quote]
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=bolt+ ... cQ_AUIBygC
If things were meant to be easy, then I will soon complicate them....
Please note...
Anything I say is only from my personal experience and knowledge..
I don't assume to know everything, and know there is a lot I don't know..
But then I could be talking bollox.. O:-)
Please note...
Anything I say is only from my personal experience and knowledge..
I don't assume to know everything, and know there is a lot I don't know..
But then I could be talking bollox.. O:-)
Re: Key cloned (potentially) - what can I do?
[quote="X5Sport"]
The battery cutouts stop everything, including the Trackers, and add a risk of causing issues with the constantly disconnecting electronics. They are not a good idea on modern electronically controlled cars.
And yes the keys all uses radio. There is a single standard for car keys all around Europe (868MHz - and not a secret). Manufacturers use their own security codes over the radio link. However some of the security protocols are poor. VW recently got flagged for using a set of common 'master codes' across their entire model range. Not sensible. BMW used to allow easy access via the OBD2 port - which EU regs require to be common on all manufacturers thus making life easier for thieves.
Add in telematics with poor security and pretty much every manufacturer needs to wake up to cyber security - as do those making home 'internet of things' kit. The largest DDOS web attack before Xmas used unguarded webcam/baby monitors.
[/quote]
You sound like you work in tech (from a fellow techie) - I follow the same news
But I have found this: OBD Saver, a lock for the OBD port
https://www.obd-saver.de/montage-bmw/auswahl-bmw/
They have a UK distributor, and they have told me there are F15/X5 ones which will fit the X6 too (these require pulling the OBD port out and drilling holes etc)
This year they introduced a universal one and universal plus. From the docs they sent, the universal is a click on click with 4 bolts, the plus is the same but with a key on it, so less drilling installed.
Prices range from £110 for the universal, to £199 for the specific F15/F16 one.
The battery cutouts stop everything, including the Trackers, and add a risk of causing issues with the constantly disconnecting electronics. They are not a good idea on modern electronically controlled cars.
And yes the keys all uses radio. There is a single standard for car keys all around Europe (868MHz - and not a secret). Manufacturers use their own security codes over the radio link. However some of the security protocols are poor. VW recently got flagged for using a set of common 'master codes' across their entire model range. Not sensible. BMW used to allow easy access via the OBD2 port - which EU regs require to be common on all manufacturers thus making life easier for thieves.
Add in telematics with poor security and pretty much every manufacturer needs to wake up to cyber security - as do those making home 'internet of things' kit. The largest DDOS web attack before Xmas used unguarded webcam/baby monitors.
[/quote]
You sound like you work in tech (from a fellow techie) - I follow the same news
But I have found this: OBD Saver, a lock for the OBD port
https://www.obd-saver.de/montage-bmw/auswahl-bmw/
They have a UK distributor, and they have told me there are F15/X5 ones which will fit the X6 too (these require pulling the OBD port out and drilling holes etc)
This year they introduced a universal one and universal plus. From the docs they sent, the universal is a click on click with 4 bolts, the plus is the same but with a key on it, so less drilling installed.
Prices range from £110 for the universal, to £199 for the specific F15/F16 one.