Auto transmission & lifetime oil

[Mrgee]

Just read an interesting article in BMW Car about the lifetime oil in an auto box, and why is it that the oil in the engine needs to be changed, but the oil in the auto box is sealed for life.The cynical amongst us may say that filled for life gearboxes are merely to keep the running costs down for the all important lease companies that tend to but a large proportion of new BMW's, or could it be a case that as long as the box lasts a little longer than the warranty, then that fine as far as BMW are concerned?

Anyway it goes on to say that the mechanics that the mag are talking to, said that after having a chance meeting with one of the largest auto box manufacturers, the manufacturer said that lifetime oil lasts about 60,000 - 80,000 miles or 4 to 6 years depending on driving conditions.

Next they do a auto box oil change on an E60 530d with 120,000 miles which hade excessive jerky changes and often went into limp mode. They used a kit made by ZF designed to service BMW auto gearboxes. Kit cost £445 included parts labour and VAT from an Indy, and after the gear shifts are seamless and smooth. The main dealer had condemned the box.

I wonder if this is what should be done as a routine maintenance ot the gearboxes in the X5's instead of waiting for a problem to arise? We all change the engine oil frequently, but don't think about the gearbox in the same light, I mean, there's lots of pieces of metal spinning around at high speeds? After reading the article, I'll be looking at changing mine (if I ever get it back!)

[pvr]

I had my oil changed (not by choice) as there was a leak from the gearbox sump gasket which was replaced on warranty. This was at 62k miles, and the jerky gearbox downshift from 2nd to first at each junction was cured after that.

I am certainly not sorry it has the new oil in it though.

[X5Sport]

I raised a similar question when I had my box rebuilt and the answer from the ZF Specialist was that 'Lifetime' does not mean from manufacture to scrappage - e.g the 'life' of the car, but is in fact what the manufacturers determine is the useful life of the car - three to five years depending upon mileage - or very roughly 60,000 miles.

A discussion I had with my local BMW Dealer recently about system updates being free for the first three years also revealed that BMW only seem to believe that this is the 'useful life' of the vehicle. So they really expect all owners to change every three years? I guess they do, as that was the advice with the Mini order too. Do a 4 or 5-year 'BMW Select' deal by all means, but bring it back at three, don't go beyond that 36 month point.

This of course raises another bigger question around the whole usage of the term 'lifetime' on anything. I expect it to mean birth to death, but this is apparently not the case. My rebuilt transmission deal had the correct oil installed at rebuild, and then the oil was to be flushed and replaced within the 6 months/6,000 miles which is not exactly 'lifetime'.

Vauxhall's use of the term 'lifetime guarantee' on their products is good sales talk - but it's only valid for the first owner. After that - hard luck. Understandable to a certain extent as they would not want to warrant a vehicle 'for ever', but the use of words is a little 'odd'.

Then again, ISPs are allowed to sell 'unlimited' broadband aren't they - and then put a cap on it.

[gobiman]

I read that article last week - picked up the magazine just before a long train journey! Very interesting.
I'm at 60k on my 4.8iS and may well add it to the preventative maintenance budget before 80k assuming I'm going to keep it beyond 100k - particularly as i haven't extended the warranty and have slightly over £3k in the notional kitty!

[Denis O]

Anyone for a trip to Dortmund?

http://www.bimmerboard.com/forums/posts/527361/

[pvr]

Wow, that is some work they do there. Very interesting.

[X5Sport]

No wonder BMW leave them well and truly alone. My guess is you need to be working with these things VERY regularly, or you forget what goes where. Easy to see why these boxes cost so much though.

Even more impressive is that someone actually sits down and dreams the whole control system up.

[pvr]

Not quite an "under the arches" type gearbox rebuild, is it

[Denis O]

Last time I saw a workplace like that it was under the name of BUPA

[X5Sport]

[quote=""Denis O""]Last time I saw a workplace like that it was under the name of BUPA[/quote]

I'm not going to ask what you were having done there then..............

[Mrgee]

Maybe there's nothing to fear about spending 4k on a replacement auto gearbox if you do preventative maintenance on the auto box then...

[X5Sport]

There have been many frequent, and sometimes heated, debates about changing or not changing the transmission oil. I can see both sides to the argument, but having had a failure well before I would have expected it (42k miles), I never got the chance to discover which side was right.

On one hand the mechanically trained engineer in me says it has to be a good thing as I don't believe in 'lifetime' products - especially lubricants, but on the other hand the risk averse part of me says leave well alone coz if you clean the crud out then you'll disturb things and it'll break because the crud has maintained some of the tolerances. It's a no win situation. Aarrghhh!! You can go nuts trying to work out what might or might not happen, good or bad

I suspect that had mine made it to 60k then in all probability I would have had the fluid changed on the basis that new fluid had to be better than old and the balance of possible outcomes was in favour of 'change', rather than 'keep' and hope all was OK. Another way of looking at it that if it does break then it was probably going to anyway so £200 spent on fluids was just part of the repair. If it doesn't break, then the cost of the fluids saved the cost of a rebuild

[gobiman]

Interesting analysis. My thoughts would be -
1. Clearly has to be done by someone who knows it well rather than any old mechanic. Like the look of ZF in Germany!
2. At a price of c. £500 or less versus rebuild, cost would seem to make sense - the bill from ZF seemed very reasonable! Starting to pay over £500 would seem to me to be less attractive versus risk.
3. I'm at 60k now and would have to be committed to keeping to 100k for it to be worth it as little perceived value when selling it. As we all know, often a difficult way to plan!

[X5Sport]

I think that bill from ZF was just to overhaul the Mechatronics Unit. The transmission itself is around £800 in parts. Mine was £2200 all in rebuilt plus a further £1200 for a re-manufactured Mechatronics Unit two months later. That makes the cost of just a fluid & filter change rather more attractive and palatable

...and in case you were wondering, BMW's 'offer' of a replacement box and Mech Unit came to just under £10k (of which almost £3k was labour) - and no they didn't get the job!!

[Mrgee]

[quote=""X5Sport""]I think that bill from ZF was just to overhaul the Mechatronics Unit. The transmission itself is around £800 in parts. Mine was £2200 all in rebuilt plus a further £1200 for a re-manufactured Mechatronics Unit two months later. That makes the cost of just a fluid & filter change rather more attractive and palatable

...and in case you were wondering, BMW's 'offer' of a replacement box and Mech Unit came to just under £10k (of which almost £3k was labour) - and no they didn't get the job!![/quote]


I thought it sounded a bit cheap for all that work in the vid. Are there companies in the south that do the same work (and as good as) that in the vid?

10K!!! are they mad, who'd pay that??