3.0 d not starting - but not usual fault... pls help

x5matt · Post by **x5matt** » Mon Dec 19, 2011 6:05 pm

Dear All

can you help pls or offer some advice , ive hsd enough.

last couple of days the x would not start (54 3.0d auto 85k miles) so i thought here we go roll on winter!

it turned over but would not fire up and i was getting the fault codes 'trans fail safe' but also a 'fuel injection system' faults on the screen.

i put it down to the battery needing changing so bringing up random errors. Purchased a new Bosch siver S4 and had it fitted. turned the key and same issue!!

Funny thing was then if you switched ignition off, left it for a few seconds then turned key to 2, waited 20 seconds then turned............hey presto fired up!

i tetsed this a couple of times and it worked each time. next port of call was a 'sticky' Fuel pump relay. I had this fitted today expecting all to be well but it has made no differnce! but if i go thorugh the above sequence turn to 2 wait 20 seconds and then turn it fires up!! really strange.

I was heading down the route of injectors, fuel pump itself, glow plugs etc , but i cant figure out why, when i would wait it would fire up??

the car had recentley been seerviced with fuel filter/ air and also the breather pipe done, and im not sure if they have not knocked anything/trapped anything etc whislt doing this?

any ideas? the combination of the two above errors are what are throwing me............

any help or ideas would be great , all opionions greatly appreciated as its driving me crazy.

strummer · Post by **strummer** » Mon Dec 19, 2011 6:10 pm

you really need to read the codes mate to have any chance of getting to the bottom of the problem

jason@bwchiptune · Post by **jason@bwchiptune** » Mon Dec 19, 2011 6:56 pm

[quote=""x5matt""]Dear All

can you help pls or offer some advice , ive hsd enough.

last couple of days the x would not start (54 3.0d auto 85k miles) so i thought here we go roll on winter!

it turned over but would not fire up and i was getting the fault codes 'trans fail safe' but also a 'fuel injection system' faults on the screen.

i put it down to the battery needing changing so bringing up random errors. Purchased a new Bosch siver S4 and had it fitted. turned the key and same issue!!

Funny thing was then if you switched ignition off, left it for a few seconds then turned key to 2, waited 20 seconds then turned............hey presto fired up!

i tetsed this a couple of times and it worked each time. next port of call was a 'sticky' Fuel pump relay. I had this fitted today expecting all to be well but it has made no differnce! but if i go thorugh the above sequence turn to 2 wait 20 seconds and then turn it fires up!! really strange.

I was heading down the route of injectors, fuel pump itself, glow plugs etc , but i cant figure out why, when i would wait it would fire up??

the car had recentley been seerviced with fuel filter/ air and also the breather pipe done, and im not sure if they have not knocked anything/trapped anything etc whislt doing this?

any ideas? the combination of the two above errors are what are throwing me............

any help or ideas would be great , all opionions greatly appreciated as its driving me crazy.[/quote]
If you are in middlesex give me a call
Popin And I'll have a look

Sanj · Post by **Sanj** » Mon Dec 19, 2011 7:01 pm

Glow plugs perhaps - that having to wait gives them time to warm up.

x5matt · Post by **x5matt** » Mon Dec 19, 2011 7:42 pm

Hi guys, thanks for the replies, no glow plug warning lights etc showing as yet, its typical with x's, just when you really need them to come into their own they let you down.

its booked in for a injector leak test etc tomorrow, and preparing for the worst = 889 + Vat for the fuel pump from BMW

Bargain Bucket · Post by **Bargain Bucket** » Mon Dec 19, 2011 8:02 pm

My X5 struggled to start when the temp was less than zero the other day. No warning lights on the dash but 6 glow plug faults logged. So just cos it does't register on the dash, doesn't mean the plugs are OK. You really need fault codes read. Jason has kindly offered already but tell us where you are and maybe somebody with a scanner is closer to you.

x5matt · Post by **x5matt** » Mon Dec 19, 2011 8:32 pm

Hi guys

many thanks that would be a help with the scanner if anyone is local. I live in manchester and i will be in liverpool in the morning hopefully with the X if it starts ok!!! , so basically if anyone can help in and around greater manchester or liverpool then that would be a great help.

would really love accurate diog of the problem

thanks guys

wilkoturbo · Post by **wilkoturbo** » Mon Dec 19, 2011 8:40 pm

Sheffield ?

brewer · Post by **brewer** » Mon Dec 19, 2011 9:14 pm

As others have said above, get codes read and it will reveal more where to focus. But again, an educated guess based on the symptoms is glow plugs.

I had both messages you mention "trans failsafe" and "fuel injectors" - that is purely down to the fact that if after about 20 seconds the car fails to start on turnover the diags throw those errors - its the battery cranking (and if its a duff/old battery then it will invariably give up the ghost).

A new battery sorted the above (more powerful CCA - cold crankage). Then I progressed to still taking an age to actually fire up from cold. No dash errors, but codes showed 3 (of the 6) glow plugs showing faulty. This would correlate to the failure to start first time, but once warmed (from attempted starts) then they eventually do fire.

Hope this helps. Get the codes read.
Brewer

Sanj · Post by **Sanj** » Mon Dec 19, 2011 9:18 pm

And lumpy idle is usually injectors - no warning for the glow plus. Hope you get it sorted an for minimum outlay, but please keep us posted.

x5matt · Post by **x5matt** » Mon Dec 19, 2011 9:58 pm

i will defo keep you guys updated , i hate it when a post does not follow through to completion, you are never the wiser.

@ Brewer - thanks for the info, it has a new battery as i thought this would be the first thing, to be honest it was not wasted money as i tetsed the old battery once off and it was seriously down with a faulty cell showing so either way the battery ahd to be replaced. the pasin was the relay, to get the glove compartment out was a bit of a struggle and once done the configuration of the relay did not match up totally with the a diagarm i had from a previous post. A couple of calls to BMW and they assured me the one i was pulling out (the upper one - there were only 2??) was the correct one so i replaced it.

I guess the test will be tomorrow morning, i will try and start as normal , if it does not catch i will do as i have done , turn the key - wait 20 secs and then fire, this has worked so far but i am leaning towards it taking that long to build the pressuer in the fuel pump as its on it way out?? i always think the worst and most expensive, that way im happy if its anything cheaper.

I am with WD but will only use them if its the full fuel pump as trying to recover money from them has been a pain in the past and the only other option is take it to halfords and WD pay them direct!!!! , but would you??? really!!!

anyne with a scanner locally??? your help would be great

x5matt · Post by **x5matt** » Wed Dec 21, 2011 6:58 pm

hi Guys .........quick update........

its been in at the indy most of the afternoon, thye ahve checked the relay and that seems fine, they did not get around to performing the leak off test on the injectors as yet as i only dropped it mid afternoon. they will give it a going over tomorrow... however they are thinking its the Pre Fuel pump itself. They will confirm tomorrow once moere tests have been completed.

Its coming in at Â£1000 inclusive of VAT at BMW. will be using my WD warranty (hopefully!) but i pay a Â£25 excess plus 20% of the parts cost - so still looking a couple of hundred min.

I have had a alook at GSF/Euro car parts who are at Â£732 incluind VAT for the pump on exchange basis so if its needed will ask them to purchase from here, (every penny counts!) so i play less on my contribution.

i just get really nervous when dealing with WD, its really hit and miss with those guys, it depends who you get on the phone, even though i paid extra for the total coverage so everyhting was covered!!

will update more tomorrow, im still thinking the injectors, as i do get exact vibrations when stood in D at the lights, hoepfully will post a conclusion either way tomorrow.

thanks

x555 · Post by **x555** » Wed Dec 21, 2011 7:36 pm

I would say a faulty injector or seal based on the above as the car wouldn't fail to start with faulty glow plugs it would just be a lot slower also once started it wouldn't be 'lumpy at the lights'......before your indy spends hours (Â£Â£Â£s) with leak tests etc has he done a diagnostics check yet ?

x5matt · Post by **x5matt** » Thu Dec 22, 2011 1:00 pm

Hi Guys. Hopefully final update on this one!

just received a call from the INDY, they have been testing the car since yesterday and have concluded the following -

Injector leak off test -OK
Glow plus and Controller -OK
Starter motor/Alternator etc - all ok (already knew this and has had new battery)

ECU has never been updated and has now been updated and all fault codes cleared and re read.

Showing Fault - 'common rail pressure'
Fuel pump tested and showing deficency in operation - not building up the pressure to start.

thsi would explain leaving it on for 20 secs and then it whurrrs and fires up first time.

they monitored the fuel pump using this method of waiting 20 secs and could see the pressure building up as they did this to the point it fired up.

Conclusion - fuel pump on way out. - they have speoken to WD and have had the job approved

new fuel pump being fitted should collect at 5pm

only concern i have is that they have approved Â£2084 + vat for the job in total. i know the pump is Â£1000 incl Vat at BMW so the rest i feel is high??? not really bothered but i think they are milking it a little??

I pay Â£25 excess and 30% of part cost due to my mileage = Â£115 ish total. i am more than happy with that! as slong as that was the problem.

they ahve assured me its showing no other faults at all as i still think the injectors are playing up , rough idleing at lights? could this also be the fuel pump???

so far then WD has worked for me!!

B5tew · Post by **B5tew** » Thu Dec 22, 2011 1:12 pm

Hi x5matt I have what sounds to be exactly the same problem with my car. When I switch on the ignition if I can hear the whirring noise the car starts fine but sometimes I can't hear the whirring straight away and the car wont start, I wait for a bit the whirring noise starts and the car will then start.
I am going to get the codes read later so will see what that come up with.

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