Hi all, quick question, got a full wheel alignment for the X, and they couldn't get the rears more than -3.1 (ish) degrees. Guy recons that the rear rose bushes are shot. They do look all pushed over to one side, and I was getting terrible inside tyre wear (hence the full geometry check) and the back end can be twitchy in the wet, all of which point to the rear rose bushes as far as I can tell..
So the question is --assuming I can get my hands on the puller /press tool is it as simple a job as this video makes it look? I somehow suspect not... Have been quoted £500+ for the alignment indy to do it hence the interest in DIY fix.
http://blog.bavauto.com/9385/bmw-diy-video-rear-suspension-lower-ball-joint-bushing-removal-replace-diy-e39-e38-others/
Cheers all
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Rear Rose Bush replacement
Re: Rear Rose Bush replacement
Well, managed to get my hands on a subframe tool and a rose bush tool (I think they're more also referred to as the rear lower ball joint... why the 2 names I've no idea...) Will report back when its done... What could possibly go wrong 
Re: Rear Rose Bush replacement
Check the inner arm bushes as well they can contribute to loss of adjustment I made my own Rose bush tool the job is pretty straight forward. I also changed the upper arms as well. The inner arm bushes I pressed out using a socket and some tube and a small hydraulic bottle jack laid in a piece of channel with stops welded in.
It worked a treat, BMW say it cant be done but Lemforder make the bushes The difference is night and day even though the car was driving well with tyre wear only just starting.
It worked a treat, BMW say it cant be done but Lemforder make the bushes The difference is night and day even though the car was driving well with tyre wear only just starting.
4.6is X5 Estoril Blue (current)
4.4 X5 Sport Topaz Blue LPG (now gone squashed by a tree)
Subaru Outback 3.0 Rn Star Silver (current)
AMG 6.3 CLS Obsidian Black (sold)
4.4 X5 Sport Topaz Blue LPG (now gone squashed by a tree)
Subaru Outback 3.0 Rn Star Silver (current)
AMG 6.3 CLS Obsidian Black (sold)
Re: Rear Rose Bush replacement
Cheers will do, Have also ordered upper arms so it will all get done together.
Sorry the terminology throws me a bit sometime, but by inner arm bushes I assume you mean the big meaty bushes that attach the swing arm? (I think one actually has the eccentric bolt for camber adjustment). Also by check do you mean once its loose, grab the thing and see if it wiggles?
cheers
Sorry the terminology throws me a bit sometime, but by inner arm bushes I assume you mean the big meaty bushes that attach the swing arm? (I think one actually has the eccentric bolt for camber adjustment). Also by check do you mean once its loose, grab the thing and see if it wiggles?
cheers
Re: Rear Rose Bush replacement
Yes they are the ones, mine were pretty obvious they were shot. Lots of splits in the rubber and loads of movement.
When the inner wear started to show I took the car for alignment the couldn't get it in spec that was the trigger to re-bush the suspension. I changed front and rear and got the BMW specialist I use for servicing to change the rear sub frame bushes. Really pleased with the result especially as towing a horse trailer must put more load on the rear.
When the inner wear started to show I took the car for alignment the couldn't get it in spec that was the trigger to re-bush the suspension. I changed front and rear and got the BMW specialist I use for servicing to change the rear sub frame bushes. Really pleased with the result especially as towing a horse trailer must put more load on the rear.
4.6is X5 Estoril Blue (current)
4.4 X5 Sport Topaz Blue LPG (now gone squashed by a tree)
Subaru Outback 3.0 Rn Star Silver (current)
AMG 6.3 CLS Obsidian Black (sold)
4.4 X5 Sport Topaz Blue LPG (now gone squashed by a tree)
Subaru Outback 3.0 Rn Star Silver (current)
AMG 6.3 CLS Obsidian Black (sold)
Re: Rear Rose Bush replacement
Cheers! and your story sounds familiar, my last set of rear tyres lasted 6K miles 
That triggered full geometry check, but they couldn't get the camber within spec hence the bush overhaul.
Thanks for the info
That triggered full geometry check, but they couldn't get the camber within spec hence the bush overhaul. Thanks for the info
Re: Rear Rose Bush replacement
OK-- So the subframe bushes went without a hitch, actually pleasantly surprised at how easy they were (Note - tool available to borrow in South Lanarkshire, throw in bottle of Jack and Ill even give you a hand 
) )
Now...The effing rear ball joints are another bloody matter. Managed to undo all the bolts, but the thing is stuck solid. Had the same tools on the tool bolt as on the subframe tool (including a 600mm breaker bar) .. but so far have only managed to bugger bearing thing that makes tightening the bolt easier, the thread has stretched a bit too
Have coated it in penetrating spray and will try again on Sat, The bushes part seems to be metal so I don't think I can even just mash them out with knife / hammer / M16 submachine gun.
Any suggestions on loosing the buggers would be very welcome,
Cheers
) )Now...The effing rear ball joints are another bloody matter. Managed to undo all the bolts, but the thing is stuck solid. Had the same tools on the tool bolt as on the subframe tool (including a 600mm breaker bar) .. but so far have only managed to bugger bearing thing that makes tightening the bolt easier, the thread has stretched a bit too
Have coated it in penetrating spray and will try again on Sat, The bushes part seems to be metal so I don't think I can even just mash them out with knife / hammer / M16 submachine gun.
Any suggestions on loosing the buggers would be very welcome,
Cheers
Re: Rear Rose Bush replacement
Daft question? You have let the air out of the suspension haven't you?
If the suspension is under pressure you wont move a thing, also the bushes only come out one way there is a holding ring on one side that needs to be levered off with a flat screw driver.
There is an excellent video on you tube it show a 5 series but the operation is the same.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=MG8jkWMsQw4
If the suspension is under pressure you wont move a thing, also the bushes only come out one way there is a holding ring on one side that needs to be levered off with a flat screw driver.
There is an excellent video on you tube it show a 5 series but the operation is the same.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=MG8jkWMsQw4
4.6is X5 Estoril Blue (current)
4.4 X5 Sport Topaz Blue LPG (now gone squashed by a tree)
Subaru Outback 3.0 Rn Star Silver (current)
AMG 6.3 CLS Obsidian Black (sold)
4.4 X5 Sport Topaz Blue LPG (now gone squashed by a tree)
Subaru Outback 3.0 Rn Star Silver (current)
AMG 6.3 CLS Obsidian Black (sold)
Re: Rear Rose Bush replacement
Cheers Greydog, no such thing as stupid question when Im working on a car!
But, Yes, I have let the air out, and got the ring clip thing off. ON both sides they were so rusted you could easily have missed em though. In the end I used a hammer to push the centres out and then used a hack saw blade to cut through the out metal rim. Very slow, and sore on the hands but once that was done they would knock out with a hammer. I figure it must release some tension between the ball joint and the hole it sits in. To be fair, Im pretty sure they were the original ball joints, in one the grease inside had turned into some black powder!.
So Ive got one side, done, but fitting the new driver side is causing me problems, have snapped 3 different threaded bars trying to press it back in... no wonder indy's charge so much!!
But, Yes, I have let the air out, and got the ring clip thing off. ON both sides they were so rusted you could easily have missed em though. In the end I used a hammer to push the centres out and then used a hack saw blade to cut through the out metal rim. Very slow, and sore on the hands but once that was done they would knock out with a hammer. I figure it must release some tension between the ball joint and the hole it sits in. To be fair, Im pretty sure they were the original ball joints, in one the grease inside had turned into some black powder!.
So Ive got one side, done, but fitting the new driver side is causing me problems, have snapped 3 different threaded bars trying to press it back in... no wonder indy's charge so much!!
Re: Rear Rose Bush replacement
Ok, both rear ball joints / rose bushes (never did get to the bottom of the 2 different names) and all 4 subframe bushes are on. Embarrassing squeak has gone, wheels have visibly less camber, and the handling, particularly in the wet is transformed, genuinely its a different car to drive. )
Im leaving this here in case others come by the thread with similar problems to me. Particularly as I had real problems in pressing the new ball joint into the driver side. To get over this
1. Give the hole that the joint will press into a good clean --this is on all the video's but the fit is so tight any remaining bits of corroded on crud will cause problems when pressing the new one in.
2. I've read warnings that using a torch to heat the aluminium wheel carrier may weaken it, so to try to create a differential in temperature, I put the new ball joint in the freezer, and placed a jug of hot water over the wheel carrier (so the hole was partly immersed in the hot water).
3. Finally, since somewhere in my subconscious something makes me wary of using WD40 on rubbers, I covered the hole and the ball joint in a silicone lubricant (one from halfords, not Anne Summers... although in theory it should work fine!)
4. Take your time setting up the press before tightening it all up. Make sure the receiver cup isn't in the way of the joint as it is pressed into place, also make sure the pressing cup is square on the ball joint. Mine wouldn't sit square until I had the silicone on it.
After doing points 1-4 this morning, it all pressed into place very very easily, first time. Still tight, but nothing like yesterday when I was repeatedly snapping threaded bars. Of course, that also means I've no idea if one or all of the measures where responsible for the final success!
Anyway hopefully this helps some other weary sole fighting... and losing.. with his / her rear suspension.
Cheers all
)Im leaving this here in case others come by the thread with similar problems to me. Particularly as I had real problems in pressing the new ball joint into the driver side. To get over this
1. Give the hole that the joint will press into a good clean --this is on all the video's but the fit is so tight any remaining bits of corroded on crud will cause problems when pressing the new one in.
2. I've read warnings that using a torch to heat the aluminium wheel carrier may weaken it, so to try to create a differential in temperature, I put the new ball joint in the freezer, and placed a jug of hot water over the wheel carrier (so the hole was partly immersed in the hot water).
3. Finally, since somewhere in my subconscious something makes me wary of using WD40 on rubbers, I covered the hole and the ball joint in a silicone lubricant (one from halfords, not Anne Summers... although in theory it should work fine!)
4. Take your time setting up the press before tightening it all up. Make sure the receiver cup isn't in the way of the joint as it is pressed into place, also make sure the pressing cup is square on the ball joint. Mine wouldn't sit square until I had the silicone on it.
After doing points 1-4 this morning, it all pressed into place very very easily, first time. Still tight, but nothing like yesterday when I was repeatedly snapping threaded bars. Of course, that also means I've no idea if one or all of the measures where responsible for the final success!
Anyway hopefully this helps some other weary sole fighting... and losing.. with his / her rear suspension.
Cheers all
Re: Rear Rose Bush replacement
You didn't lose, you won !! Persistence pays.
Sounds a Saga though, I have to say mine were a doddle by comparison pretty much like the video.
Well done Nick now enjoy
Sounds a Saga though, I have to say mine were a doddle by comparison pretty much like the video.
Well done Nick now enjoy
4.6is X5 Estoril Blue (current)
4.4 X5 Sport Topaz Blue LPG (now gone squashed by a tree)
Subaru Outback 3.0 Rn Star Silver (current)
AMG 6.3 CLS Obsidian Black (sold)
4.4 X5 Sport Topaz Blue LPG (now gone squashed by a tree)
Subaru Outback 3.0 Rn Star Silver (current)
AMG 6.3 CLS Obsidian Black (sold)
Re: Rear Rose Bush replacement
I have been following this thread with interest as I am about to embark on this very job.
I may take you up on your kind offer of the tool loan as I am not too far away in Paisley.
I may take you up on your kind offer of the tool loan as I am not too far away in Paisley.
X5 40d
Re: Rear Rose Bush replacement
Cheers Greydog, it did feel like a bit of a epic lol, but you're quite right, a win over 3 days is still a win!
Happy to loan either Mr Angry, (subframe or ball joint tool). I'd suggest getting some spare threaded bar though for the ball joint tool. If I was doing it again I'd get the slightly thick m12 bar rather than the m10 I used. Im sure yours will be easier... can't imagine they'll be more difficult! Im in Hamilton quite a lot if you can travel that far?
Cheers
Happy to loan either Mr Angry, (subframe or ball joint tool). I'd suggest getting some spare threaded bar though for the ball joint tool. If I was doing it again I'd get the slightly thick m12 bar rather than the m10 I used. Im sure yours will be easier... can't imagine they'll be more difficult! Im in Hamilton quite a lot if you can travel that far?
Cheers