All season 19" tyres (General & Toyo missing gap in market)

[AW8]

Yes another tyre thread.......not dedicated winter this time.

Many discussions have taken place regarding winter tyres.

Considering the large numbers of E53's running 19's in the uk & R.O.W. I, like others I am sure, am dispappointed with the lack of all year around one rubber choices.

Diamaris are very summer focused & in reality not too bad in colder months after a couple of miles or so.They also deal with surface water okay as long as they have sufficent tread depth.

Toyo Proxes ST seem to be fairly well recieved but on careful reading elsewhere it seems some praising acceptable light snow abilities seem to also refere to the Proxes STII which is a different tyre & has snipes to cope a bit better than ST in light snow.

There still seems to be a lack of a year around tyre with M&S capability that can cope better than summer tyres in light snow, cold & surfaces other than tarmac.

Down on south coast we dont see much snow.....only a handful of days even in last 2 years. It would be good for the car to cope a bit better in sand/light mud too.

As I see it I can only shortlist to General Grabber UHP & threse have mixed reviews with some reports alleging of block seperation & noise over circa 20k miles.

General Grabber AT & Toyo Proxes STII would seem to be far better solutions but they don't come in size wise for the rears on 285/45/19.

I have emailed bith Toyo & General but no indication of this gap the X5 tyre market being adressed.

Anyone else find this frustrating ?

Anyone else found an acceptable all year around option to cater for mixed conditions running 19's ?

Any other thoughts ?

I accept winter tyres are best for winter & thus this is not a winter tyre discussion thread. There is a sticky thread elsewhere for those wishing to discuss winter tyres.

[CondorX5]

What about Bridgestone Super Duellers? I seem to remember them being a good all-rounder on my long-gone and much-missed Nissan Patrol - don't know if they come in X5 sizes, mind you.......

[shadrack]

General Grabber AT & Toyo Proxes STII would seem to be far better solutions but they don't come in size wise for the rears on 285/45/19.

do they come in any 19" sizes at all? just you can vary the width of a tyre on a rim by quite a few sizes either way, and therefor vary the profile and still keep the same wheel diameter, also if they were available for the fronts you could buy a spare pair of rims and run fronts on the rear with say a 20mm spacer in to keep it looking good

[Powercat]

All season,
that's me, all my tires and all my cars have all ways been all season
Only change them when they're not legal, I bet I'm not the only one
Just befor the tread is level with the bars ( so there's no confusion)

[AW8]

Powercat : I personally don't run illegal tyres. My last Diamaris needed change occured before they got to that as I experienced slight aquaplaning in the wet even though legal.

shadrack : I would personally prefer to stick to OE sizes without spacers. IMO it's not worth having a row with an insurance company in event of a later disputed claim.

Condor : I have read mixed reviews on the Duellers some claiming they are not that good in the snow. HP decribed as a summer tyre despite it correctkly sizing in 285/45/19. Bridgestone ER30 reviews not convincing me to buy same either.

No need to change yet but seriously considering General Grabber UHP's - I would be interested to see reports on here from anyone with same - expecially in terms of durability, tyre noise & any mpg changes.

[pvr]

You are fighting a losing battle here, as everywhere else in Europe, you really need a double set of wheels to cope with all weathers.

With all-weather tyres, I fear you will always have a compromise somewhere, i.e. either not as great in the summer as could be, or not as great in the winter as it could be.

Last couple of winters we did have about 8 weeks of very snowy / icy roads, and then at least another month around that where winters were required due to the temperature.

Not really a reply to your thread, but with a set of winters including tyres being around £650 or so, that is not far of a couple of good summer tyres on your car ...

[mikem]

As said a winter set will always be the best option.

If I was forced to run an all season set all year around, I'd use a square set up not staggered.

We had a disco 4 with 255/55/19 wranglers all around and they coped well enough in the snow. I only got it stuck once but in fairness I was being pretty careless with it (it was a loan carnafter someone rear ended the wife's X3).

[philip600]

Hi,
I've ran my X5 on Toyo Proxes S/T since buying her. She's had these on through the last two winters which here in the North East have been pretty bad for snow ( 8 / 10" fell earlier this year ! )
The X5 took it all in her stride even though I have 20" staggered set up.
275 fronts & 315 rears should not preform well in the snow but I even took her for a trip across the roads of the North York moors the previous Winter ( albeit with a friend following in his Landrover ) but I needn't have worried, even with over a foot of snow in places she just kept going. Even my mate in his LR was impressed.
My parents house has a long steep drive ( probably 1 in 4 ) with a turn near the top & I reversed up this when there was approx 6" of snow, again no problems.
Now I haven't had any other tyres fitted to compare but I was originally considering buying a second set on Winter wheels / tyres hence the trip over the moors to see how she would perform, after that I decided not to bother, as long as your're not expecting to go off road the Proxes copes with Summer & Winter fine.
I'm on the second set front & rear & see no reason to change.
I did however replace the tyres before they where down to the wear indicators & I think this makes a huge difference, even snow tyres will struggle to cope with only 1.6mm tread, or less !
This is probably one of the biggest problems with tyres, far too many people only replace them when they fail an MOT, I'm always amazed at the pile of old tyres at the dealer I use, the majority of them are way less then 1.6mm, some even to the point where the braiding is showing through.
If people want to risk there own life, fine, the problem is that they could end up injuring or even killing someone else in the process due to illegal tyres ! Read the braking tests in the press between a new tyre & one with 1.6mm, the difference is staggering.
Regards, Phil.

[gobiman]

I run Vredestein Wintacs on 18s for winter and Sessanta on 20s for summer.
If I could only have one set it would definitely be the Wintracs. Performance on tarmac is fine. I have driven them at very high speeds on the autobahn with no issues - they are rated to 149 mph.
I was initially concerned by higher wear but no issues there - had them for 12k and barely worn.
I'd be happy to leave them on all year round.

[AW8]

Thanks for replies.

Phils comments are interesting........ it is useful to see positive commentds re Proxes ST coping to an acceptable standard in some snow. References to maintaining traction in a foot of snow on the moors & tacking a 1 in 4 drive with a turn are particularly useful.

I remember, (much to amusement of myself, my neighbour & others here including pvr), that a couple of years ago I spent over an hour literally spinning around in circles across my the snow covered drive and garden at our last home.........& that was before even heading off to Suffolk on often partially blocked roads , passing multiple stuck vehicles on the way. Fortunately with forward planning & some luck I never had to stop on an incline

I am probably more aware than most as to the merits decicated winters having watched plenty of footage, read loads of reviews & even helped & or advised members securing a suitable winter set up.

I had it clear in my head that I was going to secure a winter set up by this coming winter but unfortunately other unplanned bills on both cars for over £2k between them put this on hold to this......

Having spent fare too much in the rental sector, (over £40k in 3 years !), since sale of last home we are, (after several failed attempts due to circ's beyond our control), attempting to buy again. Anys spare £'s will be destined on home type things. I am thus giving careful consideration to best year round tyre solution for when the time comes to replace the Diamaris.

In an ideal world I would have prior accquired a winter set by now as well as a couple of other goodies..... Then again plenty in my situation might have parted with their X5 long before now.


Thanks again for all comments

Edit- Just seen comments by gobiman- thanks. I prior considered running wintracs all year around as they come in for size on 19's. Just mindful I occasionaly like to press on through twisties in the summer.

[philip600]

Hi,
Glad to pass on my experience.
There is no doubt winter tyres will always out perform summer ones once the temperature dips below 7 degrees but I know what you mean about the cost of running two sets of wheels / tyres.
As I said my experience is with Toyo's with at least 4mm tread during winter, I've been lucky that with the mileage I do they have needed changing before the really bad weather set in, I'm sure at 1.6mm the Toyo's would have struggled.
With regards my parents drive I was more impressed with the electronics of the X5 maintaining grip & traction whilst reversing up such an incline, you could hear allsorts of noises while the transmission adjusted drive to the wheel with most grip, it also gave me the chance to test the hill descent control, again very imperssive although it was very tempting to hit the brake pedal ! It was like the car was tip-toeing down as it braked individual wheels until they locked & then realeased them !
There was an article in Auto Express a couple of weeks ago where they tested winter tyres of various brands & the problem of cost running two sets was discussed, they asked tyre manufactures & they all agreed if you could only afford to run one set they would advise running winter tyres all year round. The compromise of running winter tyres in summer outweighed the compromise of running summer tyres in winter.
Regards, Phil.

[AW8]

Thanks again for another decent & comprehensive reply........

Re techology coping I am also mindful mine does not have x-drive albeit the 4WD system on mine well tried & tested.

I am sure that a durable winter tyre like the Wintrac would serve all year around. My guilty pleasure of enjoying driving progressively in summer when able & mood suits is the only thing that thus far has caused me to dismiss running winter all year around.

This of course takes us back ful circle to where I opened. I feel a decent all year tyre in 19" size would be a more acceptable compromise for acceptable, (not best),performance in all seasons in south of u.k. .......Hence my frustration the more snow capable Toyo Proxes STII & the General Grabber AT, ( great for year around sand & mud too), don't size in 285/45/19 yet.

It would be great if Toyo &/or General woke up to this gap in the market to cater for the many E53 X5 owners that run one set of 19" tyres all year around & merely seeking the most versatile tyre option enjoyed by others with different wheel sizes.

Come along Toyo & General......Sort it out & make some money at the same time !

[Nige]

[quote=""AW8""] No need to change yet but seriously considering General Grabber UHP's - I would be interested to see reports on here from anyone with same - expecially in terms of durability, tyre noise & any mpg changes.[/quote]

I fitted a set a couple of days ago to replace my worn out Diamaris. £600 for 4 fitted wasn`t TOO bad.

Only done some local driving so far, so I can`t really comment on noise & mpg, I`m still wearing off the release agent.

I`ll post back in a while with my thought.

[Nige]

After almost 2,000 miles, the noise has died down a little. I`d say economy is about 0.5mpg worse than before, at high speed (120+) they were quiet and stable.

Wear is even and grip in the rain is good. So far, I have no issues with them at all.

[AW8]

Thanks Nige - feedback on these appreciated. Let us know how you get on in more demanding conditions in future such as light snow/soft off roading etc.